tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post3771618465958516400..comments2023-06-10T22:42:19.087+10:00Comments on Australasian Christian Writers: Acceptable content in Christian fictionUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-79286539958998987602013-11-21T20:38:22.593+11:002013-11-21T20:38:22.593+11:00Andrea, I'm really looking forward to reading ...Andrea, I'm really looking forward to reading your current WIP. I was intrigued by the premise of your story when you first mentioned it to me at the RWAust conference last year :) No one lives a perfect life without any troubles or hardship, and Christian romances can reflect these realities in a way that is inspiring and encouraging for readers. Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-16413810225496510322013-11-20T23:18:01.749+11:002013-11-20T23:18:01.749+11:00Have loved reading your post Narelle and subsequen...Have loved reading your post Narelle and subsequent comments. They certainly have a common theme. <br /><br />It was mentioned about characters who are beautiful and/or rich. My current WIP is about a Christian girl who is very beautiful, but the focus is on the problems she faces because of it, and how it has affected her self-esteem. It's been a bit of a challenge to write about the effects of her beauty in a way that explains natural male reactions without being offensive - I certainly don't want to be, but I also want it to be (healthily) real. <br /><br />I find it interesting how we object to violence in stories so, um, violently (I prefer not to read or watch excessive scenes myself) yet so much of the Bible contains it. David and his men were pretty heroic! And if one of us were to write a story along the lines of Song of Solomon certain publishing houses certainly wouldn't publish our manuscript. <br /><br />I like what Jo said - when I write, I've got Jesus reading over my shoulder right alongside me. If it makes me uncomfortable knowing that, then that particular bit is cut. No question.<br /><br />I also love how we are all so different. God is a creative God. All we can do is use our common sense (why isn't that listed as a spiritual gift?) and have genuine love as our guide. Unfortunately, we won't please everyone, but we can rest if we know we've tried out best. <br /><br />Thanks again Narelle for a great conversation starter!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04449342827457837314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-3861767269719061022013-11-20T16:18:53.305+11:002013-11-20T16:18:53.305+11:00Thank you Narelle and Jenny. I had not even given ...Thank you Narelle and Jenny. I had not even given that concept as a reason for being "edgy". I wrote it deliberately to try and show what can happen especially to Christians who fail this area in their Christian lives. Unresolved, unadmitted sin in our lives can have long term, severe consequences that affect not only the "doer's" life but many others also. Mary Hawkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603850711168486457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-41259989281260466362013-11-19T17:09:05.837+11:002013-11-19T17:09:05.837+11:00Hi Debbie! Thanks for stopping by and joining in t...Hi Debbie! Thanks for stopping by and joining in the discussion :) It's interesting how we use many words in different contexts that are on the no-go list. The word magical, in the context of fairy lights, was one word I had to change. I do a find and replace search on a number of words before submiting my books because I tend to forget which words I can't use :) Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-65902684899700911452013-11-19T17:00:56.525+11:002013-11-19T17:00:56.525+11:00Mary, thanks for your detailed comments. It will b...Mary, thanks for your detailed comments. It will be interesting to see if the level of violence noted by some readers is still an issue fourteen years later, or if times have changed?<br /><br />I agree with Jenny and her thoughts on why some readers may consider RTB edgy.Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-16015202754518827762013-11-19T10:59:15.284+11:002013-11-19T10:59:15.284+11:00Oh boy Debbie Passion in that case was real. You k...Oh boy Debbie Passion in that case was real. You know passion can be used so many ways without it being bad like My passion is cricket but cos of my headaches I am unable to enjoy it live this year which is really disappointing me. <br />Thanks for stopping by and also the other LI writers. Oh I have to say I Love LI books.Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-79329654398810659882013-11-19T10:56:23.080+11:002013-11-19T10:56:23.080+11:00Mary I think what readers meant was actually menti...Mary I think what readers meant was actually mentioning she had sex before marriage would be considered edgy to some American's. The fact she enjoyed it would put it further in the edgy side but the rest of the book wasn't edgy.Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-32677201574269787942013-11-19T10:40:08.498+11:002013-11-19T10:40:08.498+11:00Sounds as if the editor simply did a word search, ...Sounds as if the editor simply did a word search, Debbie. No wonder my ecstatic I mentioned above was unacceptable.Mary Hawkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603850711168486457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-55368642535685039912013-11-19T10:22:05.578+11:002013-11-19T10:22:05.578+11:00Oops! Sorry did not hit enter to make paragraphs. ...Oops! Sorry did not hit enter to make paragraphs. Bad writer!Mary Hawkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603850711168486457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-20844657324490136912013-11-19T10:19:28.549+11:002013-11-19T10:19:28.549+11:00Good article, Narelle and I'm enjoying the dis...Good article, Narelle and I'm enjoying the discussion. As a Love Inspired Historical author, I also write for very conservative standards. And because my stories focus on missionary adventure/romance the standards get a little tighter. The challenge is always to write real people and real issues within those guidelines. I don't skirt the dangers my characters face in the jungle, or the very real threats from evil, but neither do I describe the actual violence if it does indeed take place. I do long, at times when I have a non-Christian character,to be able to say "He swore," if he really would have in a situation, but I have no desire to use the actual words. But, I confess to a bit of an eye-roll when asked to take the word "passion" out of my last story. The sentence was "Her passion was God." But, no matter the context, I was told the word was unacceptable in our stories. :) Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17805720678569940665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-48913804019027118642013-11-19T10:18:57.495+11:002013-11-19T10:18:57.495+11:00Thank you, Narelle, for introducing these importan...Thank you, Narelle, for introducing these important thoughts. The comments are all very helpful also to this "oldie" and I think have said already much of what I also think about the topic. I do believe one of the most important basic things for any writer is to write the kind of book the writer enjoys reading the MOST herself/himself. If you don't like reading certain levels of swearing, sex, violence and Christian messages that make you feel you are being preached at, than you should never include those in any book you write. Unfortunately I think there have been writers who try to follow trends and write what sells the most. I think this has become pretty evident in the increasing number of romance writers targeting the booming erotica market. In the comments above, we clearly see that writers come from as many different backgrounds - both physically as well as spiritually - as there are readers out there, and so it is natural that we need and have many different kinds of books. As has already been mentioned, different Christian cultures and countries have different standards. I was taken aback when told that some readers overseas thought that the prologue in my Return to Baragula was "edgy". When I was told that I read and re-read those pages. The only thing I could see that might suggest that was my use of the word "ecstatic" by the Christian heroine after yielding to have sex before marriage. I still think it was important to try and show later how that scene affected her spiritual life in the following years. After Faith in the Great Southland, my first historical Heartsong Presents book was released in print years ago, I was very surprised to receive several letters from readers who hated the amount of violence in it. One even mentioned she knew there was violence in the Bible but she still did not like reading it there either! Now 14 years later it has been released again as an e-book and I'm waiting to hear if I receive any more of those kinds of comments. There is a generational aspect to this whole discussion. Remember too that while we might all agree with most of the comments, we discover it is not at all easy to write acceptable books to the majority of our readers in the Christian market. My prayer is that we always keep tabs with the Lord about our motivation for writing. May we just write our "heart" stories, always searching the scriptures and using God's Word always as our guide to try and decide how explicit we show our characters and stories to our readers.Mary Hawkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12603850711168486457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-30269598573894368722013-11-19T09:47:09.927+11:002013-11-19T09:47:09.927+11:00Hi Janet! Thanks for visiting our blog and sharing...Hi Janet! Thanks for visiting our blog and sharing your insightful thoughts :) Hell isn't usually considered a swear word in Australia. I remember being shocked a few years ago when an author friend received a lot of criticism for using that word in her Christian fiction book. <br /><br />A big congratulations on hitting the Publishers Weekly Best Seller List last week! It's always exciting to see Christian fiction books achieving these milestones :) Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-56668370502372905632013-11-19T09:30:12.784+11:002013-11-19T09:30:12.784+11:00Hi Lyn! Thanks for stopping by and providing your ...Hi Lyn! Thanks for stopping by and providing your helpful thoughts on my post :) Christian fiction can and does include stories by authors who address the tough issues. 'Keeping it clean' is very wise advice. I hope to catch up with you again at a conference. It's hard to believe its over five years since we met at RWAm in San Francisco! Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-20898872875682155692013-11-19T09:23:57.057+11:002013-11-19T09:23:57.057+11:00Jenny, I agree it's helpful if the back cover ...Jenny, I agree it's helpful if the back cover blurb provides a clear indication of the content in the story, especially if it's combined with a relevant cover. For example, the cover art on romance books can provide a snapshot of the sensuality level in the story.Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-8681236851884543312013-11-19T04:31:20.332+11:002013-11-19T04:31:20.332+11:00I, too, write Christian romance. I have found tha...I, too, write Christian romance. I have found that there is plenty of freedom to say things without a lot of swear words. I do sometimes wish 'hell' was more accepted though (it's not by Harleqin Love Inspired, my publisher). I don't think it's the same as taking God's name in vain -- and sometimes it's very hard to think of a word to replace it. As for sex, I'm more of the 'closed door' kind of person anyway -- I do read books with some sex, but if it's too much or too detailed I have a tendency to skip it to get on with the story.Janet Tronstadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07901051836938693274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-39185156050973982592013-11-19T04:13:04.352+11:002013-11-19T04:13:04.352+11:00Narelle does a good job on her overview (Hi, Narel...Narelle does a good job on her overview (Hi, Narele!) I think where to draw the line in portraying sensuality and violence is a tricky one. I usually don't shy away from characters who have problems. One of my favorite heroes is just getting out of prison after 7 years for vehicular homicide. I think one can deal with almost any subject as long as one keeps it clean. I mean I don't dwell on violence or sex, but a few words can paint an accurate picture. Lyn Cotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11366375647118584580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-5639655565245458932013-11-18T19:30:20.486+11:002013-11-18T19:30:20.486+11:00Jeanette, I think it can take time to work through...Jeanette, I think it can take time to work through all the issues and discover the sweet spot in the market where our books fit. There are readers looking for edgier content and fiction books that deal with 'out of the box' topics and issues. I think it's really important that we have Christians writing books in the general market as well as the Christian market. Writers looking to publish 'crossover' books have unique challenges to overcome that are probably a discussion topic for another day :) Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-32645460248869334852013-11-18T19:26:19.466+11:002013-11-18T19:26:19.466+11:00I was just thinking of a friend she read a book th...I was just thinking of a friend she read a book that was an adoption story and struggled as she was adopted out at birth. Blurbs really need to give warnings of content that could cause issues. In this case the adoption was mentioned in the first couple of chapters where telling in the blurb gives nothing away.<br />The same if there may be graphic content a warning is needed. I myself will not read graphic content (as in rape). I do like war stories and find people like Gilbert Morris do them well they can be a little more realistic than some want but they are not gruesome or overly graphic. In fact my favourite movie is Gettysburg which doesn't honor war but tells the of the battle it isn't blood thirsty and proves you can have a story which tells the story with out glorifying violence. Gilbert Morris is good like that with his war scenes he tells the story without glorifying the violence. When I order or request a war book I know there will be war scenes and am ready but not for bad language.Ausjennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07644698706787568679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-43727861211133132872013-11-18T19:20:32.952+11:002013-11-18T19:20:32.952+11:00Hi Rhonda, thanks for visiting and sharing your th...Hi Rhonda, thanks for visiting and sharing your thoughts :) Georgette Heyer is a lovely writer and I'd love to have the time to re-read some of her books. <br /><br />Since you're writing books targeting the general market, I'd recommend reading a couple of new release Christian fiction books in your chosen genre to get a better gauge on the current market expectations. For example, Five Days in Skye by Carla Laureano is a Christian contemporary romance novel published in the US that has elements I believe are similar to general market Christian worldview romances. The divide between Christian romances and general market romances is much smaller than ten or twenty years ago. Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-22475991817924176232013-11-18T19:03:05.261+11:002013-11-18T19:03:05.261+11:00Hi Jo, thanks for stopping by and sharing your tho...Hi Jo, thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts :) It's important to know our own individual comfort zones as readers. Bad language in books bothers me because it might cause me to stumble, but I suspect I can read a much higher sensuality level than the typical Christian romance reader and not be bothered by the content. I tend to read something edgy and think 'oh, that's likely to be too much for some readers' rather than being offended myself. I respect the choice of readers to be more conservative in their views, and as an author I don't want to write something that could cause them to stumble. <br /><br />That said, I think I'd struggle to read a rape scene like you've described above that is shown on-stage. As a reader, I don't want to go into a character's head and experience that type of situation in any depth. It would definitely be helpful to signal the content in the back cover blurb, especially if it's more graphic than the typical book in that category, because it will help you to draw the readers to your story who want to read about this issue in a very real way. These are the readers who can be blessed, encouraged, and healed through your story.<br /><br />I love the predictability of romance, in terms of knowing the hero and heroine will end up together and wanting to experience the journey to their happily-ever-after ending. It sounds like we have very different tastes in reading. The great thing about the Christian fiction category is there is a wide variety of genres and stories available that appeal to different readers. Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-66485754053445565512013-11-18T18:30:54.253+11:002013-11-18T18:30:54.253+11:00Dotti, it's great to hear that you know your r...Dotti, it's great to hear that you know your reader and write books with your target audience of readers in mind. It's so important, if our writing goal is to publish our stories (irrespective of whether we pursue traditional publishing opportunities or choose the indie publishing road) that we identify our readership and desire to meet their expectations. It's always smart to write the books you love to read because your passion for your chosen genre will shine through in your writing :) Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-86863715702508141382013-11-18T18:23:08.292+11:002013-11-18T18:23:08.292+11:00Hi Beth, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us ...Hi Beth, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us :) I'd prefer to read 'He/She swore' than read the actual swear word. There are many authors who successfully write about war and other violent events in ways that aren't graphic but still show the depth and emotion of the specific situation.<br /><br />It's interesting to read your thoughts on overdone Aussie Christian romance plots. This is helpful information for the Christian romance writers reading this post. It's wonderful to hear you've been touched and encouraged by the faith element and Christian content in a number of books :) Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-91348977866920514392013-11-18T18:06:06.500+11:002013-11-18T18:06:06.500+11:00Jenny, I can understand why the rape scene, with t...Jenny, I can understand why the rape scene, with the level of detail you mentioned, would not be your first choice in reading material. I'm well under 70 and I don't like reading bad language in books. I wouldn't necessarily stop reading a book because I came across a few swear words, but I have stopped reading a couple of secular romance authors due to the large volume of bad language. Swearing is contagious, I hear enough of it in my real life, and I don't want to absorb it as I read. In that sense, Christian fiction books with bad language could cause me as a reader to stumble. Narellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07665380446283721576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-82963245649543954202013-11-18T17:41:16.831+11:002013-11-18T17:41:16.831+11:00As a reader, I will read books that have more cont...As a reader, I will read books that have more content - skipping over bits that get too steamy and filtering out bad words - as long as it's not gratuitous to the story. I read as many secular authors as Christian ones and like to read a wide variety of genres. I find that it helps me to understand different worldviews as well as different issues. Some books I've loved (I really enjoyed Ursula Le Guin's books despite her eastern religious leanings because she gets me thinking. I don't have to accept everything a writer believes to engage with her) but I really disliked Kingslover's The Poisonwood Bible because of the crass (unfavourable ) stereotypes of missionaries in Africa (especially as I lived in Africa and interacted with missionaries about the period she was talking about.) With Christian fiction - I like more unpredictable plots that deal with real people and real issues. <br /><br />I'm not published yet but these the issues you raised Narelle I am working through as I write - what content is acceptable to readers and publishers- and am I comfortable with. I'm aiming for "crossover" fiction with maybe a little bit more edgy content (though no open bedroom doors or gratuitous sex or violence, no swearing) - but hope what I write is still acceptable to the Christian market. <br /><br />As one reader commented - the Bible itself doesn't shy away from the nitty gritty of life. Jeanette O'Haganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11057798704247611224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-515660504291275491.post-66799403518759721902013-11-18T16:46:40.894+11:002013-11-18T16:46:40.894+11:00What a stimulating discussion! Thank you everyone....What a stimulating discussion! Thank you everyone. As a reader I am probably not qualified to contribute to this discussion; I long ago ceased to read christian romance fiction because I considered it to be too sweet to be taken seriously, and I hate to be preached at! And I have to say, the American examples I did read were very much of the 'tell and not show' variety which put them in the badly written category for me. I started reading Georgette Heyer when I was about 11 years old and after that nothing else ever compared favourably! <br /> <br />I admit I have not attempted to read any Australian writing in the genre, not even the edgier examples I am told are now available. Georgette H is still my benchmark.<br /><br />As a writer, my desire is to write from a christian worldview and redemptive standpoint for the general market. Whether it ever happens or not, my aim is to write material that my non-christian friends would describe as both believable and well written and, because of it, would say 'almost you persuade me to believe'. <br /><br />As a writer I may choose to have a character swear in direct speech, but I would not put blasphemy in his mouth. I would simply imply it (or is it 'infer'? I get those two confused!). But you only have to use a swear word once to establish the nature of the character. Its unimaginative and bad writing to repeat it. RhondaRhonda Pooley - Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18267933289137123263noreply@blogger.com